Recently Keith Ng challenged Matthew Hooton about his media commentary and analysis, suggesting that his “agenda” made his involvement problematic. The debate involved plenty of others, too. Here’s my attempt to record the lengthy Twitter conversation, in chronological order. [Read more below]
Peter Aranyi @onThePaepae Apr 7
Those gasping in outrage re Rolling Stone firing NO journos over campus rape debacle—consider inaction by NZ media re Dirty Politics cohort
Peter Aranyi @onThePaepae Apr 7
>> I know that's an unpleasant subject to raise (compromised journalists being exposed, sanctioned) but re-read this http://j.mp/1HJ0lvp
John Drinnan @Zagzigger Apr 7
@onThePaepae Isn't it a bit over the top to include rootin' tootin' @MatthewHooton in the GT list
@Zagzigger @onThePaepae Is it fair to say that @matthewhooton uses his media platform to actively conduct intrigue against Joyce & Key?
John Drinnan @Zagzigger Apr 7
@keith_ng @onThePaepae @matthewhooton Not sure your point
@Zagzigger @onThePaepae The media - and it's readers - are participants in @MatthewHootonNZ's utu schemes. That's a bit off, ain't it?
John Drinnan @Zagzigger Apr 7
@keith_ng @onThePaepae @MatthewHootonNZ Left bloggers promote their mates cos they have less power - will change when Greens are in power
@Zagzigger @onThePaepae Oi, easy with the false equivalence. I ain't promoting nobody.
John Drinnan @Zagzigger Apr 7
@keith_ng @onThePaepae No no not you - But in Left Blogdom there are some people instutions people - black & white hat.
Peter Aranyi @onThePaepae Apr 7
@Zagzigger @keith_ng May I also trouble you to clarify JD? Do you say *I* am one of reprehensible "Left bloggers promoting their mates"??
John Drinnan @Zagzigger Apr 7
@onThePaepae @keith_ng Nah - not you - or Keith - you're logical, I'm wary of the line only capital and authority is corrupt.
@Zagzigger @onThePaepae And I think that's a strawman. Saying that some institutions is corrupt doesn't mean saying ONLY institutions are..
@Zagzigger @onThePaepae corrupt, nor ALL institutions are corrupt.
Peter Aranyi @onThePaepae Apr 7
@keith_ng @Zagzigger Mental exercise: imagine a smear machine operating from PM's Office, feeding derogatory info to pliant/complicit media
Peter Aranyi @onThePaepae Apr 7
@keith_ng @Zagzigger >> who publish it without declaring PMO's involvement. Then that's exposed. Cue defensive reaction, messenger shooting
Peter Aranyi @onThePaepae Apr 7
@keith_ng @Zagzigger >> who publish it without declaring PMO's involvement. Then that's exposed. Cue defensive reaction, messenger shooting
Peter Aranyi @onThePaepae Apr 7
@keith_ng @Zagzigger >> cue smear machine doing what it does best; rank-closing, mealymouthed 'confessions' but no real change—Corrupt yet?
John Drinnan @Zagzigger Apr 7
@onThePaepae @keith_ng I don't disagree with you - discussion started cos of MH and Mora - GT dragging in everybody not like him as baddie
@Zagzigger @onThePaepae Would you really say that MH is a different beast from, say, Cathy Odgers or Carrick Graham?
John Drinnan @Zagzigger Apr 7
@keith_ng @onThePaepae Absolutely - I wonder who his clients are - but gives a useful analysis of where the Right is at..
@Zagzigger @onThePaepae But how do you distinguish between when he's providing useful analysis, and when he's sabotaging his enemies?
John Drinnan @Zagzigger Apr 7
@keith_ng @onThePaepae Same with journos quoting politicians - Sd before all PR people should name his clients - they won't, Its an issue
@Zagzigger @keith_ng @onThePaepae 2/2 does that disqualify their insight/expertise? Do/could you 'declare' every person you don't like?
@Tim_Watkin @Zagzigger a) Are they primarily there to provide insight or to push their own agenda?
@Tim_Watkin @Zagzigger b) If the latter, is their agenda is of legitimate public interest?
@Tim_Watkin @Zagzigger c) if not, does the value of their insight outweighs the creepiness of their agenda?
Rob Hosking @robhosking Apr 7
@keith_ng @Tim_Watkin @Zagzigger Isn't c) very much in the eye of the beholder?
@robhosking @Tim_Watkin @Zagzigger It's in the eye of the editor.
@keith_ng @robhosking @Zagzigger vital but you seem to be demanding more than that, indeed monastic purity, which will offer no insight
Peter Aranyi @onThePaepae Apr 7
@Tim_Watkin @keith_ng @robhosking @Zagzigger Quite a lot of ‘spectrum’ between ‘monastic purity’ & Jason Ede’s/Slater’s partner in crime.
Peter Aranyi @onThePaepae Apr 7
@Tim_Watkin @keith_ng @robhosking @Zagzigger I wked w Holmes for 5 yrs. Don’t think we wd’ve use such a compromised player to frame issues.
@onThePaepae @keith_ng @robhosking @Zagzigger I'd be surprised if that's true. But either way I'm not clear where your line is
@onThePaepae @keith_ng @robhosking @Zagzigger it was a genuine question about where you'd draw a line re unacceptable pundits. Answer?
@Tim_Watkin @keith_ng @robhosking @Zagzigger Hard in 140 chars. Generally avoid lobbyists & those paid to influence public opinion/media.
@Tim_Watkin @robhosking @Zagzigger Are we still talking about Hooton here? His agenda is not secret, and "not be exacting utu" is a hardly a
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Apr 7
@keith_ng @Tim_Watkin @robhosking @Zagzigger what is this "utu" i am exacting?
@MatthewHootonNZ @Tim_Watkin Would it be fair to say that you're vigourously and artfully undermining Key and full-out savaging Joyce, and
@MatthewHootonNZ @Tim_Watkin ..that this is not the natural state of affairs, not caused by ideology, but because of other interactions?
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Apr 7
@keith_ng @Tim_Watkin I think I've been a pretty consistent opponent of interventionism etc since I became politically aware in early 80s.
@MatthewHootonNZ @Tim_Watkin Yeah, but I don't remember you being one of the most energetic opponents of the current govt till recently.
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Apr 7
@keith_ng @Tim_Watkin It was the latest Sky City fiasco that tipped me over the edge and made be finally accept we are back to pre-1984 days
@MatthewHootonNZ @Tim_Watkin Yeah, but the interventionism is barely half of it. You also go very hard on Key's integrity.
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Apr 7
@keith_ng @Tim_Watkin That's because he has lied to me and about me. Does that make me biased? Or better informed?
@MatthewHootonNZ @Tim_Watkin I suppose it makes you an interested party.
@onThePaepae @keith_ng @robhosking @Zagzigger 140 is hard. But if it's opinion & viewpoint is declared then why disqualify connected people?
@onThePaepae @keith_ng @robhosking @Zagzigger think about all the views you'd take out of debate... On left that'd include Kelly, Salmond
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Apr 7
@keith_ng @Tim_Watkin There's also the #SIS report issue, Sabin etc. Attacking his integrity is not very controversial is it?
@keith_ng @MatthewHootonNZ Keith what I don't get is where you are drawing the line. Mathew declares & takes consistent line, views his own
@onThePaepae @keith_ng @robhosking @Zagzigger having said that I try hard to avoid special cases. Standards are nothing if not consistent
@onThePaepae @keith_ng @robhosking @Zagzigger having said that I try hard to avoid special cases. Standards are nothing if not consistent
Selwyn Manning @Selwyn_Manning Apr 7
@MatthewHootonNZ @Tim_Watkin @keith_ng @gtiso @publicaddress Personally, I think it's the value of the contribution that counts.
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Apr 7
@Selwyn_Manning @Tim_Watkin @keith_ng @gtiso @publicaddress Which is a good argument for all academic political scientists to be banned
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Apr 7
@Tim_Watkin @keith_ng My suspicion is that some people draw the line at "must be approved by @gtiso and @publicaddress"
@onThePaepae @keith_ng @robhosking @Zagzigger ..the past on issues I'd have no way of knowing he was compromised on. Which is more than many
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Apr 7
@keith_ng @Tim_Watkin @MattNippert Doesn't everyone have an interest in the PM's integrity (or increasing lack thereof)?
@Tim_Watkin I like reading @MatthewHootonNZ's columns. But every time I read them, I'm trying to sort out the opinions from the manoeuvring.
@Tim_Watkin @MatthewHootonNZ eg, Is he attacking Eagleson bc he thinks Eagleson is to blame over Sabin? Or is it bc he has a beef with him?
@Tim_Watkin @MatthewHootonNZ Why's he pushing the envelope about what can be said about Sabin? Is it bc Eagleson might take the fall for it?
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Apr 7
@keith_ng @Tim_Watkin Because he's in charge of a PM's office that is either corrupt or dishonest, & used #SIS info for political purposes
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Apr 7
@keith_ng @Tim_Watkin Because that's my brand as a political commentator. I pushed envelope when Cunliffe lied about his role at Fonterra.
Peter Aranyi @onThePaepae Apr 7
@Tim_Watkin @keith_ng @robhosking @Zagzigger Also—I see a significant diff. between a lobbyist/govt comms flack & an advocate. Imagination?
Matthew Hooton@MatthewHootonNZ
.@keith_ng @Tim_Watkin I can push the envelope in @TheNBR because @ToddScottNBR allows it more than the corporate owners of other media
John Drinnan @Zagzigger Apr 7
@MatthewHootonNZ @keith_ng @robhosking @Tim_Watkin What is your word rate? Seriously - does your commentary help yr lobbying business?
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Apr 7
@Zagzigger @keith_ng @robhosking @Tim_Watkin I think it probably harms it, but we all have our hobbies. Does help with name recognition.
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Apr 7
@Zagzigger @keith_ng @robhosking @Tim_Watkin Also, i don't really do "lobbying" - we are more full frontal than that.
Peter Aranyi @onThePaepae Apr 7
@Tim_Watkin @keith_ng @robhosking @Zagzigger Yr show, yr call Tim. As I said, I like Matt & have drawn value fm his spin—but compromised IMO
Rob Hosking @robhosking Apr 7
@keith_ng @Tim_Watkin @MatthewHootonNZ why do his motives matter more than what he has to say?
@robhosking @Tim_Watkin @MatthewHootonNZ bc political commentary is itself about assigning motivations and narratives.
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Apr 7
@keith_ng @robhosking @Tim_Watkin The main motive is always "its 5am Thurs and I have to write something controversial by 8am"
Rob Hosking @robhosking Apr 7
@keith_ng @Tim_Watkin @MatthewHootonNZ matters more, though?
@robhosking Bc narratives and motivations can rarely be verified by facts. Trust is paramount, and motivations are foundation for trust.
The Ruminator @RuminatorNZ Apr 7
@MatthewHootonNZ @keith_ng @robhosking @Tim_Watkin man I've enjoyed reading this thread. Kudos.
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Apr 7
@RuminatorNZ @keith_ng @robhosking @Tim_Watkin Well you know from the copper tax thing that I don't commentate on things I am working on.
The Ruminator @RuminatorNZ Apr 7
@MatthewHootonNZ @keith_ng @robhosking @Tim_Watkin when you did you straight up declared it. You're honest that way.
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Apr 7
@RuminatorNZ @keith_ng @robhosking @Tim_Watkin It's also true that when Joyce went on TV & said we were lying, it made me think less of him.
@onThePaepae @keith_ng @robhosking @Zagzigger When it comes to commentary, it's all advocacy of a type & you want the best informed ones IMO
@Zagzigger @onThePaepae @keith_ng @robhosking We had 50+ panellists last year, so tbf we have all sorts of voices framing the issues
@robhosking @keith_ng @MatthewHootonNZ But Keith his bias is well known. So if it's transparent, all informed views are welcome, no?
@keith_ng @robhosking Everyone has motivations/agendas, with commentary it's up to the viewer to pick & choose & filter, as you do
Graeme Edgeler @GraemeEdgeler Apr 8
@Tim_Watkin @robhosking @keith_ng @MatthewHootonNZ I disagree that it is "well-known".
@GraemeEdgeler @Tim_Watkin @robhosking @MatthewHootonNZ yeah, I don't think anyone knows about my *secret* agendas.
The Nation @TheNationTV3 Apr 8
@GraemeEdgeler @Tim_Watkin @robhosking @keith_ng @MatthewHootonNZ it's not known that Matthew is of the right and a lobbyist/advocate?
Danyl Mclauchlan @danylmc Apr 8
@Tim_Watkin @robhosking @keith_ng @MatthewHootonNZ That's the DPF line. Elites know it, the wider audience don't.
John Drinnan @Zagzigger Apr 8
@keith_ng @GraemeEdgeler @Tim_Watkin @robhosking @MatthewHootonNZ Politicval reporting is a club - though some look outside the clubrooms
Graeme Edgeler @GraemeEdgeler Apr 8
@TheNationTV3 @Tim_Watkin @robhosking @keith_ng no offence to @MatthewHootonNZ, but most people would not know who he is.
Graeme Edgeler @GraemeEdgeler Apr 8
@danylmc @Tim_Watkin @robhosking @keith_ng @MatthewHootonNZ exactly. What percentage of NZers do you think could name the Deputy PM?
Graeme Edgeler @GraemeEdgeler Apr 8
@snarky_mk @danylmc @Tim_Watkin @MatthewHootonNZ the PM is used as a commentator frequently.
@GraemeEdgeler @TheNationTV3 @robhosking @keith_ng @MatthewHootonNZ viewers know cos we intro him w his job title & stating he's right wing
Graeme Edgeler @GraemeEdgeler Apr 8
@Tim_Watkin I think @keith_ng's point is that viewers know some, but you don't detail eg. animosity with particular people @MatthewHootonNZ
Graeme Edgeler @GraemeEdgeler Apr 8
@Tim_Watkin @keith_ng @MatthewHootonNZ my point and @danylmc's is more general, and not directed at @TheNationTV3.
Tim Watkin @Tim_Watkin 24h24 hours ago
@danylmc @robhosking @keith_ng @MatthewHootonNZ But same could be said for any panellist, unless we use Sonny Bill & Lorde every week!
Rob Hosking @robhosking 24h24 hours ago
@Tim_Watkin @danylmc @keith_ng @MatthewHootonNZ Exactly. And the Reithian notion of elites sprinkling disinterested wisdom on dumb peasants
@GraemeEdgeler @keith_ng @MatthewHootonNZ my point is that rules out everyone. I don't/can't know likes/dislikes/relationships of my guests
@Tim_Watkin @danylmc @keith_ng @MatthewHootonNZ ...is a bit antiquated. The elites ain't disinterested and the peasants ain't dumb.
Kate Dougherty @KTPossum Apr 8
@TheNationTV3 @GraemeEdgeler @MatthewHootonNZ I always assume every opinion is coloured consciously or unconsciously by an agenda or bias.
